In an earlier post in this job search series, Interview Tips: How to Persuasively Tell Your Story and Convince the Interviewer, I shared my job-hunting experience and some interview techniques for persuading interviewers. Recently, a reader asked me about a recurring problem: every time a recruiter asks about salary expectation, the conversation stalls, and nothing ever follows. Did they name a number that was too high, way above what the role could pay? Or too low, so the company doubted they were qualified?

Today, California, New York, Massachusetts, and several cities have laws prohibiting companies from asking candidates about their current or past salary during the interview process. In California, where Silicon Valley is, the law is CA Labor Code section 432.3, and the details are published on California Legislative Information. Since asking about a candidate’s current or past salary is now illegal, companies can only ask about your salary expectation for the role you are applying to.

In my post An Introduction to the US Software Engineer Interview Process, I mentioned that in the first phone screen in the US, the recruiter usually asks about your past experience, work visa, and company culture fit. Very often, the recruiter will also ask about your salary expectation for the role at this stage.

Why Naming a Number First Never Helps You

If you search for articles on this topic, most of them will tell you the same thing: in a job search, being the first to name a salary range never helps you, no matter when it happens. For example, suppose you say your salary expectation is $90,000 to $100,000 a year. If the company’s budget for the role is actually $100,000 to $140,000, then if you pass the interviews, the company might open with an offer of $85,000 and negotiate over a few rounds until you land in your range. If the company’s budget is $70,000 to $80,000, your expectation is above their budget, so the recruiter may simply decide not to move you to the next round of interviews. If it is your dream company and you know you would join even at a slightly lower salary, providing a salary expectation early can cost you the opportunity. Naming a number early does not benefit you in either situation.

What to Say When the Question Comes in the Phone Screen

So if you do run into this question in the first phone screen, how should you respond? From my own experience, this is how I would answer. If you really do not know how to handle it, adjust the following lines a little, print them out, and respond this way in the interview.

Recruiter: So Brian, can you tell me about your salary expectation for this role?

Me: Hm… I think it’s too early in the interview phase to discuss salary. It’s like on the first date, asking how much I can contribute to the family after getting married. I would be more comfortable discussing the salary down the road after we find we are a good fit for each other.

Tell the recruiter that it is too early to discuss salary expectations at the first stage, just like discussing how to split money after marriage on a first date. If we both feel we are a good fit in the following interviews, we can talk then. The implication is that if you are not satisfied with me, or I am not satisfied with you, there is no need to talk at all. Talking now would just waste time.

But some recruiters will keep pushing and insist on a number.

Recruiter: But Brian, I really need to get a number from you. It will help us know your expectation is in our range and it won’t waste our time if we are far off.

Me: I really can’t give you a number at this moment. Since you mentioned you don’t want to waste our time, how about you tell me your budget for this position? I can then evaluate if it’s also in my range.

Recruiters often say they do not want to waste each other’s time, but really they just do not want to waste their own time. I ask them for the budget for the position instead, and evaluate whether it falls in my ideal range.

Recruiter: I can’t provide you our budget or the salary range at this stage. Brian, I really need to get a number from you. Otherwise, I cannot move you to the next stage of interview.

Me: I really can’t give you a number at this moment. I haven’t heard of any company that blocks a candidate from interviewing just because the candidate doesn’t want to name a salary range at the start of the process. If that’s the case for your company, then I guess I won’t continue the interview process.

Many recruiters will say that if you do not provide a salary expectation, you cannot move to the next stage. Honestly, I have never actually heard of anyone who could not continue interviewing because they did not provide a salary expectation. And if a company really works that way, I would not want to interview with that company anyway.

Recruiter: Hm… okay, if you insist not to tell me a number now, I can postpone this discussion to a later phase. I do need some numbers from you soon.

Me: We can discuss it in a later phase, once we know we are still a good fit for each other.

In the end, the recruiter will reluctantly let the candidate move forward with the interviews. If I do not pass, there is no salary to discuss anyway. If I pass, I can also see how much I actually want to join the company during the interview process before we discuss salary.

After You Get the Offer, Still Let Them Name the Number First

Recruiter: Congrats, Brian. I got good news for you. The team really likes you and we want to give you an offer. Can you tell me your salary expectation now?

Me: Thanks. That’s great news to hear. I also had a good time with the team. Since I don’t know the position level, the role’s expectations, and the company budget for a person with my skills and experience, I think it would be better for you to give me the offer number first.

Even after you get the offer, let the recruiter name a number first before discussing. After all, they are the ones who know the level of the position, what the role entails, and the company’s budget for the position.

California Law Has Your Back

Finally, if you are job hunting in California, congratulations. Under a law that took effect on January 1, 2018, when a candidate asks about the salary range for the job they are applying for, the company must answer. They have to provide the pay scale for the position. Of course, I suspect some companies may say they can only tell you this information at the final stage. Since companies will not tell you too early either, the next time a recruiter asks you this kind of question, remember not to be led by the nose.

This post was originally published on my former blog, 「半路出家軟體工程師在矽谷」, on September 27, 2019. The blog is now offline, and the text is preserved via the Wayback Machine. It has been lightly edited for this site.